Thiel Aqua Tech Vitamin C

Using Thiel Aqua Tech Vitamin C
Some benefits of using Vitamin C
How should Vitamin C be used?
How much Vitamin C should you use
Can I overdose on Vitamin C?
Shelf life of Vitamin C
How to achieve the required dosage?
Contacting Thiel Aqua Tech

Using Thiel Aqua Tech Vitamin C

Updated April 18, 1998

Whereas a few years ago the use of vitamin C in the hobby was probably quite limited, and for the most part restricted to adding some of it to foodstuff fed to fishes, recently more and more hobbyists are starting to see the benefits of using Vitamin C in their Saltwater and Reef tanks, and are using it in different manners than we were accustomed to.

You will learn more about this as you continue reading this article and as the benefits that can be derived from the use of Vitamin C are explained.

This article is updated from time to time so, some of it may sound familiar to you if you have read the article before. The latest update is April 18, 1998.

New material is added from time to time, or certain areas within the document are clarified. You can determine the version of the article by looking at the date at the beginning or end of the article. If that date has changed since you last read the article, you know that material has been added.

The benefits of using Vitamin C in freshwater aquariums may be different than they are in Saltwater aquariums and I plan to do some more research on this now that we are in Atlanta. It will take time to conduct this research, so the results of both the SW and FW experiments will probably not be available for several months.

In saltwater aquariums though, such a large amount of anecdotal evidence is now available that the benefits of Vitamin C described in that material, are truly much more than coincidental. I will research this area in greater detail too as time goes on and post whatever I can find about the kinetics and workings of Vitamin C in both SW and FW aquariums.

I indicated that there is quite an amount of anecdotal evidence available. If you wish to see such evidence for yourself, you can go to my web site's database, and do a search of the messages posted on our mailing lists. Use the keyword Vitamin C to do your search. If you want input from subscribers on our mailing list, first subscribe to one or more of them and then post to the lists and ask your questions. To see the answers you need to be a subscriber of course. You can subscribe directly By Clicking here and reading the instructions on how to subscribe and then doing so.

I have not researched what is available on other forums yet but suspect that the postings on Vitamin C are similar to what we have on ours, for the greater part anyway. You will find plenty on the Thiel Technologies site though.

If any of you who read this have any such postings available, I would appreciate receiving them, with the email address of the people who posted them. That would allow me to get in touch with them and discuss their experiences with them, and compare them to mine, and to those of hobbyists on our forum. I would also help with the research of course. I thank you in advance for posting such material to me at my email address albert@athiel.com

I stated "recently", because the trend started only about a year or two ago, after I began writing about Vitamin C's benefits, extensively, in magazines and in our own Newsletter: The Marine Reef and Saltwater Aquarium Newsletter. Of course, articles on Vitamin C's benefits were added to our web site as well. They were updated as new information became available (a good example is the evidence that is surfacing on its effects, or purported effects, on hair and other undesirable algae.

Indeed, hobbyists have been reporting that continued use of Vitamin C appears to reduce algae outbreaks and greatly minimize the appearance of diatoms as well. This is a very interesting development and not one that I had experienced myself. The number of hobbyists reporting it though starts to be more than just incidental or coincidental.

I also started recommending it to hobbyists who were sending me personal Email, and on our mailing lists (you can subscribe to these lists, for free of course, by going to Mailing List info page, or go to my main web page http://www.athiel.com and then to the link for the Free Mailing Lists and follow the directions on how to subscribe.

Note that the database of our Mailing Lists, which you can access from our main web site page, contains many many articles (messages) on Vitamin C that you may wish to read to see for yourself what hobbyist's experiences have been when using it. You may wish to read some of them to convince yourself that the treatment indeed benefits the animals and works on parasites and bacterial infections, as discussed later in this article. The direct link to the database is Search the Database.

Note too that before going any further I need to point out that Vitamin C "cannot" be used unless you carefully monitor your dKH and pH. After all, Vitamin C is an acid. An acid reduces the buffer and thus reduces the pH. I will re-stress this several times in this article because it "is" important. Do not get the impression though that using Vitamin C is dangerous. It is not at all but since it does affect the pH you need to make sure that you take actions to prevent the pH from falling and creating more stress in the aquarium. Vitamin C can be used safely without any problems daily as long as you remember to monitor your dKH or pH or both to ensure that they are not falling.

This greater, and increased use of Vitamin C is a very welcome development of course, because of the many beneficial properties Vitamin C brings to the aquarium and, especially its inhabitants, as we shall see as we go through this article/review. Because the benefits are of different kinds and import, my recommnendation to use Vitamin C is more than just a casual suggestion.

It should be noted right away that the Vitamin C is not added to the food (in this particular application I am about to explain) using, the Thiel Aqua Tech brand, but that it is added directly to the water in the aquarium, whether a reef tank or a fish-only aquarium. The approach described here is different from the one or ones you are familiar with.

This is a totally different approach and does not mean that you cannot add it to the food as well. The purposes and aims of this method are different too from the one where Vitamin C is added to the food. In our case we are trying to deal with other matters altogether, as will become clear as you read on.

Can you, therefore, still add Vitamin C to the food and is it beneficial to do so even when you add it directly to the water as suggested in this article and review? Of course, such is indeed a very good idea. Make sure, when doing so, that the vitamin C you are using is still chemically active, meaning that it still has its potency.

Old vitamins, that have been sitting around for some time, especially Vitamin C, loose their potency rather quickly. Light, in the case of Vitamin C, affects potency as well. Heat does too. Hint: store your Vitamin C in a dark and cool place and it will keep its potency for longer. It is important to ensure that you use fresh Vitamin C or you will not derive any benefits from it and may then get the impression that the methods described here do not work. The real reason they did not work for you, in this case, is the fact that the Vitamin C you were using was not chemically active and could does not produce any results for you.

The reason for dealing with the "Thiel" Vitamin C (in this article) is because it is the only one on the market that is specifically designed for aquariums (to my knowledge at the time of this writing). This was so approximately a year ago when I first wrote this particular article and still appears to be the case now.

As time goes on, other companies may offer Vitamin C for aquariums but, at this time, none is available except for the one produced by Albert Thiel, and marketed by TAD Reef Enterprises of Texas, the company that owns, sells and distributes all the Thiel Aqua Tech brand products. If you wish to email them just click on the link above.

Vitamin C for human consumption is not buffered in a manner that is appropriate for aquariums (calcium carbonate is used, a compound that does not dissolve in well at all in saltwater, and does not offer enough buffering fortthe very high acidity of ascorbic acid). Vitamin C for use in aquariums needs to be buffered in a different manner. That is the reason we have tablets made for us specifically for use in aquariums.

Another good reason to use special vitamin C is to make sure that what you add to the tank is free of all the other compounds that are part of many brands of human consumption Vitamin C. Some examples are: starches, binders, coloring agents, chelators and so on

When you use Health Food Stores varieties of Vitamin C, the risks of an acid fall (sudden pH drop) are increased manyfold. Be aware of this before embarking on this treatment method using human consumption type Vitamin C. Be prepared to really watch the pH of your aquarium if you use generic type Vitamin C, or plainascorbic acid. Play it safe and use a product made for aquariums, noting that even then you will still need to buffer to some degree, as explained later.

The method described here relies on another manner of introducing Vitamin C and getting the fishes and other animals to benefit from it. Instead of introducing, a better word would be "making it available" to the animals in the aquarium. When mixed with food it certainly is absorbed and benefits from its uptake are experienced. When mixed into the aquarium water, uptake occurs but external action occurs as well. The dual activity appears to produce increased benefits and is the reason that I have been recommending the use of Vitamin C in this fashion for quite some time now.

Because Vitamin C affects the pH (as explained earlier), you will need to counteract this effect by the use, and addition, to the tank of buffering compounds. With our Vitamin C you will have to buffer far less than with brands made for human consumption but you will still need to buffer to some extent. Please keep that in mind when considering using Vitamin C.

You may think that I am stressing this so much that using Vitamin C is dangerous. It is not but it needs to be used with the knowledge required to use it safely.

To prevent too great a change in the water chemistry too rapidly, the Vitamin C concentration is gradually increased over a period of several days.

It is dangerous to add too much Vitamin C right from Day 1 as, on one hand the animals are not used to it, and on the other, it will affect the pH a far greater amount, because it is a strong acid (ascorbic acid). You must follow the suggestions given for the gradual build up of the concentration to prevent these negative reactions. You must also add the amount needed to reach the desired concentration at least once a day. It is important to realize this. Vitamin C treatments require that the number of milligrams of C needed to achieve a desired concentration be added at least once day.

Some hobbyists use the required dosage twice a day, not just once. They add two equal dosages per day and report faster and better results.

I will conduct further research into this too. In essence what they are doing is treating their aquariums two time a day and adding the same dosage as needed to achieve the desired concentration twice a day. This can be done because the life of Vitamin C in an aquarium is only about 8 to 9 hours.

Important Note

It is extremely important that you monitor the pH on a regular basis as any drop can occur even several hours after adding C. Monitor the dKH and maintain it at 7-8 during the complete treatment period. This is most important to avoid an acid fall or pH drop.

Use only "complete" buffers to reestablish the carbonate hardness. A complete buffer is one that contains more than just baking soda (sodium bicarbonate). A complete buffer needs to contain several carbonates and bicarbonates, and also needs to include borates in its make-up.

Note that you certainly can continue to run your Kalkwasser (KW) addition set-up during the entire treatment period or the entire addition of C period (it is best, as you know, to use a drip method for adding KW. This adds KW in small amounts but continuously and evenly). If you are using a carbonate hardness reactor, or Kalkreactor as they are now called versus what I called in in 1988, in my book The Marine Fish and Invert Reef Aquarium, you may continue to run that equipment as well, noting that you definitely need to watch your pH when you do so since these devices use carbon dioxide injection. Carbon dioxide makes carbonic acid when it enters the water, so you are adding yet one more acid. In fact, this will help maintain a more stable pH too, since limewater is high in pH and since the use of a kalk reactor increases the carbonate hardness. Some adjusting to this device may be necessary but that is about the only change you will need to make.

It is important to note also that Vitamin C (ascorbic acid), when used in large dosages, will affect the buffer (alkalinity) and will thus affect the pH in a downward fashion. Provisions need to be made to counteract this, of course.

Only so-called complete buffers, the ones that contain carbonates, bicarbonates and borates will raise the alkalinity and prevent acid fall of the pH. This is most important, as some hobbyists are under the false impression that they can use plain baking soda to achieve this.

This is not so at all. You do need a complete buffer. Using only baking soda will NOT do it for you. On the contrary, it will maintain the pH at a low level, as the natural pH of baking soda (sodium bicarbonate) is only 7.8 (not nearly high enough for our aquariums. It may raise the pH when you first add it to the water but the rise will only be temporary. Soon the pH will drop again. If you continue this treatment for a long time you will end up with a situation where your buffer is totally skewed towards bicarbonates, a pH that will drop regardless of what you try to do. To counteract this you will need to use Sodium bicarbonate (the method is described in a separate article in the SW Library and in a more detailed one in the NetClub ™ Library. You can access that article from the SW Link on the main index page of our web site.

Note also that you need to check the buffer, respectively the pH, for as long as you use Vitamin C in even if you only use small dosages and definitely if you use large ones. Checking only from time to time is not good enough. The buffer that already exists may absorb the effect of the acid for a while but may not do so for the length of time you are using the Vitamin C.

You can, of course, use the buffer made by Thiel Aqua Tech called Reef KH buffer (don't let the name confuse you though, you can use it in fish-only tanks as well). It is a complete buffer and contains all the elements a buffer needs to contain.

Some benefits of using Vitamin C

Vitamin C has many beneficial properties, here are some of them (note that this list is not exhaustive and that you can check our mailing list database on our main index page to search for messages posted by hobbyists who have used C with great success):

detoxifies the livers of the fishes. This may be really important if your fish were caught using the cyanide method, still too frequently practiced. I am not saying it will cure all fishes that were caught with cyanide but it will certainly help agreat deal of them. It certainly is worth trying as you may indeed save a fish that would otherwise have died.
prevents, to a large degree, bacterial infections from spreading rapidly and becoming or developing into sores on the body of fishes, or affecting corals to to a degree that they start to "melt" as some hobbyists call it. The latter is characterised by the coral polyp disintegrating into a white toothpaste like matter or brown slime hovering over the coral polyp, while the latter decomposes.
can deal with minor outbreaks of common parasites and keep them from becoming widespread, negating the need to use other treatments to rid the fishes of them. The SW library contains another article that explains how to go about parasite eradication in far more detail than this article does
builds up and strengthens the immune system of the fishes by allowing the evacuation of heavy metals, for instance
heals wounds
heals mouth rot scars
heals lesions from black spot disease
effective in combating lateral line disease when used in the proper amounts (large dosages which are listed later)
effective in combating hole-in-the-head disease, again, if used in large dosages (as explained later)
greatly reduces the outbreak of parasitic attacks as the fishes are strengthened and able to fight them off, thus preventing large scale parasitic infestations
cleans up the water to some degree
beneficial to most corals on which we have tried it as well
can very safely be used in reef tanks. Many other medications cannot, as many of you who have tried to do have experienced (antibiotics and copper are good examples).
much better than copper and/or antibiotics since it is not destructive in nature. The approach is different in this case. What we really are doing is building up the fishes and corals' abilities to deal with disease, infection and parasites, rather than killing off the parasites and bacteria, and stressing the animals even more in the process
safe for use in all aquariums, including reefs
some report that minor outbreaks of algae have been eliminated since they started using C. This is an area that I plan to research a great deal also. I was not aware of it until several hobbyists started to point it out and wanted to know why this was happening. The only explanation at this time is that the oxidative power of C is probably the reason, but I am speculating and need to research this further. The fact remains though that these are findings hobbyists have reported to me.

How Should Vitamin C be used

In the majority of cases aquarium water does not contain Vitamin C or, if any is present, it is present in such low quantities that we may as well consider it as near zero ppm.

Since Vitamin C can be used for various purposes, there are an equal number of methods of administering it, and a different dosage regimen to be followed in each of these cases. We will explain how to go about this later in this document. What we mean here is the difference between prophylactic use and therapeutic use of Vitamin C.

Vitamin C cannot be added to the tank at high dosages right from day one on. Since no Vitamin C is present we have to gradually acclimate the fishes to this substantial change in the water chemistry. This is a drastic change and needs to be performed slowly, lest the animals will react negatively.

This is done by slowly increasing the amount of Vitamin C used, as will be explained later and dosages and examples will be given.

Using plain ascorbic acid is acceptable, of course, but it is better to use a buffered variety of Vitamin C, as its impact on the pH will be smaller than the pure ascorbic acid. If you add pure ascorbic acid you better be prepared to buffer the water constantly as its acidity is so high that your pH will drop and drop. That is why it is much better and safer to use aquarium vitamin C

Use either the TAT one or use a real pure type that does not contain binders, starches, sugars, emollients etc. Read the label carefully before making a selection. Eliminate any possible problems by using our TAT brand.

Whenever you use Vitamin C you must monitor your pH and your alkalinity before and after adding it, to avoid that your pH drops as a results of the ascorbic acid you have introduced.

Either dissolve the C in some water and slowly add it to the tank, or place the tablet or tablets in the sump and let them slowly dissolve. This is especially important the first few times you add C. Once a certain dosage has been used for a while your animals will be accustomed to the C and you can add it faster, although there is no need to do so.

Some have asked whether dripping it in is ok. That method can be used if you wish but it is better to just slowly add the liquid to the sump or tank or place the tabs in the sump. Do not place the tablets in the tank. The fish will try to eat them and you do not want that to take place.

How much Vitamin C should you use

The amount of Vitamin C that needs to be added to the aquarium can be split into the two major categories defined below :

Prophylactic
Therapeutic

Prophylactic

When treating an aquarium on a preventive basis only, it is not necessary to add real large dosages of Vitamin C. All we are trying to achieve is provide the fish and other animals with a constant low supply of Vitamin C to build up their immune system over a period of time, and take advantage of the other benefits offered by this vitamin.

Usually one adds the vitamin for a period of 14 days to 1 month and then stops adding for 2/3 months, resuming the treatment again the following month.

In essence, one treats for 14-31 days every 3 or 4 months.

The dosage recommended for this kind of treatment is a 5 ppm concentration. We shall explain a little later how to achieve the right concentration of Vitamin C in your tank.

Note that you can treat with Vitamin C continuously, without the above interruptions without any harm whatsoever, on the contrary. Of course, doing so requires that you pay close attention to the pH all the time and will require more Vitamin C overall, since you will be treating continuously rather than intermittently.

Therapeutic

When treating fish that are infected with bacterial disease, that have sores, that are scratching, that show signs of distress, a different approach needs to be taken and more radical dosages of Vitamin C need to be used.

This is where we want to increase the dosage progressively so that the change in the water chemistry does not affect the animals.

The method to be followed in all cases is as follows:

Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm
Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm
Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm
Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm
After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days.
The total treatment period is thus 14 days.
In real severe cases you may need to treat for an additional 7 days or more
During this entire period you should not be using activated carbon
During this entire period you should not be using any chemical filtration media either (e.g. resins or pads).
The skimmer needs to continue to be in operation.

Note that when you use these kind of Vitamin C concentrations it really is of utmost importance that you monitor you pH and ensure that it does not suddenly drop. Check the pH before you add the C but check a few minutes later also. If the pH is too low add a complete buffer immediately to reestablish your alkalinity and increase the pH of the water in the tank. This is very important indeed.

It is important too to realize that your dKH must be in the 7 to 8 range to minimize the amount of cloudiness that will develop. It the dKH is high (e.g. 12 or more) you will initially have a lot more cloudiness. This will gradually disappear though as you continue the treatment.

Do not make the mistake of letting your pH drop and stressing your fish out even more.

Note that in severe cases, I have used dosages as high as 100 ppm, twice a day, and have cured fish that any else would have given up on.

Can I overdose on Vitamin C?

Unless you add large amounts of Vitamin C to the aquarium without following the gradual addition increase schedule that was outlined earlier, it is highly unlikely that you will ever overdose on Vitamin C.

You must follow the directions given above to avoid creating undue stress on the fish because of water quality parameter changes.

Do not attempt to add the 50 ppm or even the 30 ppm concentration from day 1 onwards. If you do so you will see stress. Gradually increase the dosage and you will see only benefits. Should you overdose anyway, perform an immediate large water change and rebuffer your water to bring the pH back in line. Use only complete buffering compounds (the ones that contain carbonates, bicarbonates and borates).

Make sure you check the pH before and after adding the Vitamin C powder or tablets. It does not matter whether the C is either form as long as it is pure (see earlier). It needs to be free of binders, starch, and so on.

Shelf life of Vitamin C

The shelf life of vitamin is short. There is no question about it. Vitamin C does not remain active for long. You can take certain measure though to protect the unused Vitamin C you have purchased from losing its chemical efficiency :

When the Vitamin C reaches you, open the bag and transfer all tablets to an airtight container.
If you have moisture absorbing satchels place them in the container as well. If you do not, do not worry about it.
Do not leave the container open so moisture can get to it. Vitamin C attracts moisture. Moisture shortens its chemical strength.
Do not leave the tablets in the light. Store them in a dark place.
Calculate in advance how much Vitamin C you will need and order that quantity. You can always order more should you need to. Storing Vitamin C for extended periods of time is not a good idea unless you take all the precautions listed above. When in doubt email us or call us. You can, in fact, email us directly from this document (at you will see when you get to the end of it).

How to achieve the correct concentration?

Achieving the correct concentration is really very simple and is explained below. Follow the steps one by one and you will now exactly how much milligrams of Vitamin C you need to add to your tank.

Determine the gallon content of your tank.
Deduct 15 % for rock in the tank, more if you have a real large amount of live rock.
Add the content to your sump (if you are using one).
This will give you a net gallonage you need to treat.
Multiply that gallonage by the concentration you need to achieve.
The number you come up with equals the number of milligrams of vitamin C you need to add to the tank.
Add the powder or tablets to the tank or the sump (if you have one). You can safely add it to the aquarium and let the tablets dissolve slowly. If you bought the powdered form, just add the powder to the sump or tank.
The tablets should not be diluted in hot water first because heat degrades Vitamin C.
When adding Vitamin C, your redox potential will drop for some time (until the chemical action of the C is exhausted). You will see the ORP drop and then gradually you will see it rise again. When the ORP reaches it previous value, or higher, you know that the chemical potency of the C has been exhausted.

Let me give you an example:

You determine that the gallonage you need to treat is 90 gallons
The concentration you want to achieve is 30 ppm.
This means that you need to add 90 times 30 or 2700 mg of Vitamin C.

If you are unsure about how much to add to your tank, email us from this document giving us some details as to what you are trying to achieve.

Please not that we have two kinds of tablets: 500 mg ones and 1000 mg ones. The package will indicate which ones you have received. If you received powder, the package indicates how much 1/4 tsp. is equal to in mg of Vitamin C.

Contacting Thiel Aqua Tech

If you wish to obtain more information about this product, how to dose it for your tank, or if you wish to ask questions relating to this or other products we manufacture, you can leave us email by clicking on the mail address that follows:

To send us a message from this document, click here: Thiel Aqua Tech

Revised April 18, 1998 by Albert J. Thiel for the TAT web site. Revision 5